Tuesday, August 10, 2010

Failure to provide ID

The following is taken from a forum in which regular people and cops discuss the specifics of certain laws.

If they have NOT committed an offense, and I ask for their ID and they tell me to **** off, I have no lawful right to demand their ID. I have had several people ask me why, and I just simply state that you see my name on my chest and I like to know who i'm talking to. They're usually pretty good about giving it up. It's all in talking to them with respect and dignity.

Now on the flipside, if they have committed an offense and I ask for their ID and they do not provide it to me, well then they're getting cited for failure to provide ID. If they do not have it on them they're getting hooked, and taken to the PD to be fingerprinted and ID'd.


Walking peacefully down the road, which is all I do every day, does not give any law enforcement officer justification to stop me and demand to see my ID. If that happens, I have the right to walk away and go on with my life. Even if I tell the dude to go fuck himself, I still have the right to continue walking toward the Atlantic Ocean if I so desire, and the cop has no right to demand any more of my time unless I have actually broken a law.

In my Indiana brush with the law, I did not tell the deputy to go fuck himself. I just told him, calmly, to leave me alone, which I am allowed to do. Regardless, I was effectively beaten up by the cop (who I will name when this is all over). Then I spent three nights in jail for having been the victim of a crime by someone who's paid to protect me. And now I have to show up back in Indiana next month for court.

Yes, I would do it again, and I will do it again the next time a cop stops and asks me for my ID without justification. This will almost surely happen within the next week. But I almost certainly will not end up in jail when I do it again because most cops know their limits. And to be perfectly clear, the cop who arrested me knew his limits; he just didn't care and he mistakenly assumed I was stupid, which is why he wrote a report that is full of lies that don't add up.

Cops know they have more rules to follow than I do.

Still, cops are the only people who give me any trouble. Cops are the only criminals I have to fear out there. There are tons of good cops, but there are also tons of thug cops. And until that changes, I will continue to assert my freedom whenever they try to strip me of it.

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8 comments:

ER said...

That's all well and good, and I agree that anybody minding their own business and simply walking down the road should not be harassed by the police. Problem is, many of the things you must do while undertaking a coast-to-coast walk require you to break the law. Here are a few examples.

Walking on a limited access highway. Under the guise of safety, this is illegal. Cops will stop you, and many will arrest you for this, especially if you give them a hard time. Your YouTube video taken right here in my own town of Naples, FL is an example of the cops harassing you for this.

Begging for food. You've said that this is something you've done. In most areas, this is illegal.

Camping on private land without the owner's permission is trespassing, which is obviously a crime. In most countries, camping on the side of the road on public land is permissible, but not in most of the United States, unfortunately. Many jurisdictions have "vagrancy" laws that make it illegal to camp on public land, so that can also be a crime. This varies by jurisdiction. Public land is owned by the federal, state, or local government, each with different rules. Even if camping is allowed, the rules often require the camper to inform a "ranger" or other official of their overnight plans and/or get prior permission.

What I'm saying is that you're probably breaking several laws every single day, and the cop that asks you for your ID may be aware of where you slept the previous night, so you may very well be legally required to provide an ID. The problem is, I don't think the cop is required to tell you that he suspects you've broken a law before asking you to provide an ID, so you have no way of knowing if you're legally required to produce it. I guess you could ask him, but again, I don't know if he is required to tell you.

Please understand that I don't agree with these laws one bit. I think walking on a limited access highway should be permitted, as long as there's a safe area to do so. There shouldn't be anything wrong with asking strangers for a little help when you're hungry. Camping on public land should be permitted, as long as there's a safe place to do so. Sadly, we live in a country that has FAR too many laws. We have so many laws, which vary by local jurisdiction, that nobody can know them all. It's simply impossible.

What's your take on this, Ryan? I would love to hear it.

Ryan M. Powell said...

When cops knock on my door in the morning because I'm sleeping somewhere I probably shouldn't be, I cooperate with their requests.

When cops tell me to stop flying a sign at an off-ramp, I pack it up and leave.

When cops spot me on a freeway and force me to ride with them back to the last exit, I get in and find a new route to walk.

However, when cops stop and ask me for my ID without any justification, I inform them that this is the United States of America and I am allowed to walk from one of its coasts to the other without being harassed by cops every day. Why? Because it happens all the time and long ago I grew sick of these assholes thinking they have the right to steal my valuable time from me when they don't have that right.

I knew my rights before this happened. I know them even better now. Cops have a lot more rules to follow than I do, and I stand up for my rights when they are threatened or stripped from me. Why? Because it's the right thing to do in a country that calls itself the Land of the Free.

Maybe you're afraid to be free. I'm not. Even when it gets me beat up and locked up.

It's time for the people of this country to wake up and realize that the biggest threat to our freedom comes from the people who are supposed to protect us and our freedom.

Every time I stand up to terrorist cops, I help make this country a better place. You're welcome.

ER said...

For the most part I agree with you, but there are times when it's better to be cooperative for the sake of your own convenience. There's a fine line between standing up for your freedoms, and being unnecessarily confrontational. Arguing with a cop for no good reason other than because you want to be left alone only makes you look like a nut, and certainly isn't helping anyone. Believing that it's going to make the country a "better place" is a delusion of grandeur, and all it's really going to accomplish is getting you locked up for days with a return court appearance. Even if you're in the right, you can be damn sure no judge is going to believe your word over that of a local police officer, so who are you helping by standing up to a pushy cop? Your best bet is often to simply play his "yes officer, no officer" respect game, and be on your way as soon as possible.

ER said...

By the way, if a cop asks you to pack it up and move on when you're doing something you shouldn't be in a place you shouldn't be, they're doing you a favor. They could just as easily slap handcuffs on you instead. So, in the same way those cops are giving you a little wiggle room, maybe you should return the favor by giving cops a little more than they're technically permitted when they want to make sure you're not a threat to their community. After all, showing them your ID so they can make sure you don't have any warrants isn't really a big deal. What goes around, comes around - that's all I'm saying.

Ryan M. Powell said...

That's ridiculous and chickenshit, ER. You just admitted that you are not free, and that's exactly how you got that way.

Big things do not just happen all at once. Big things happen as the result of a series of smaller things, like standing up to corrupt cops and writing books about the experiences.

I can tell you, with 100 percent certainty, that my resistance has changed how some cops will behave for the rest of their careers. One Kansas cop in particular learned a very valuable lesson from my resistance. He roughed me up and cuffed me with my pack on, but we ended up leaving on pretty good terms because he realized that people don't always fit the profile you have in your head. He also realized that, as a cop, you can't just do anything you want. I'm sure he will be more respectful of other people's rights in the future entirely because I stood up for mine when he tried to strip me of them.

This country is so much more screwed up than you realize, ER, and we cannot keep doing the things that made it that way. I refuse be part of the problem. I will gladly be part of the solution. That's pretty much why this whole Aimless thing began.

Ryan M. Powell said...

ER, you go ahead and walk across the country without presenting yourself as a hero (by wearing a sign or whatever). After you've had to deal with cops slowing you down and stressing you out without justification several times a week for a few months, then you can tell me how petty my stance is.

Until then, you're welcome.

Ryan M. Powell said...

ER, you go ahead and walk across the country without presenting yourself as a hero (by wearing a sign or whatever). After you've had to deal with cops slowing you down and stressing you out without justification several times a week for a few months, then you can tell me how petty my stance is.

Until then, you're welcome.

Ryan M. Powell said...

ER, you go ahead and walk across the country without presenting yourself as a hero (by wearing a sign or whatever). After you've had to deal with cops slowing you down and stressing you out without justification several times a week for a few months, then you can tell me how petty my stance is.

Until then, you're welcome.